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Now that is a great question and I decline to answer on grounds I might further incriminate myself. I care what holes there are in her testimony and where those holes actually leadI can dig that. Question: Did Deemers know what he was talking about? It's questionable to anybody with an objectionable mind who can smell bullshit. Linda probably came from a home where she was ignored, and didn't have much direction or discipline, hence her making extremely poor choices in life, even as recent as 1997. Because the media and Bernie told me so. I don't read her responding, "no, its ok I'll testify anyway". But, again, all good. Do you remember last years motive poll ? Clear and simple, murder. And they all had a modicum of help. Do you hate everyone who was of draft age during the Vietnam era. It must have taken a lot of time and effort to research and put this post together. document.write(part3 + ''); Not even in her Grand Jury testimony did Atkins say anythingAtkins was never pushed on it. She admits to stabbing Rosemary in it mate ! Police investigation ? Two people had spread that around long before Linda herself was even arrested. Everything he did was part of a plan to wage a horrible warDon't get me wrong, I'm not a 3rd Reich admirer or apologist. You'd do it if you were a lawyer ! She has been portrayed a number of times in films. Ask yourself: if her story is not accurate why didn't she just tell the truth? People V. Manson, Atkins, Krenwinkel, & Van Houten, Manson Life-Style Changes After Move From Death Row, Manson Follower Recalls His Life of Crime at Sanity Hearing, No 'Family' Exists, Media Created It Manson Testifies, 'You Better Pray I Never Get Out,' Manson Friend Tells Sanity Trial, 4 Manson Followers Convicted in Hawthorne Robbery-Shootout. Hands? Don't get me wrong I do not believe any of these crazies actually had thought processes like that. She did drugs with her child and basically spent her whole life making sure that her child would have the most stressful and illegal life possible. var part1 = "deb"; She clearly loved her children and tried to be a good mother. document.write(''); Linda married Robert Peasley when she was only sixteen-years-old. In 1968, the couples first daughter Tanya was born. In his closing argument, he uttered some very telling words, namely; "The motives that the co~defendants, the actual killers, had, on the other hand, was a very simple motive. March 1970 to Linda Kasabian, father unknown. That's because sometimes, my thoughts on part of something that someone has said aren't formulated at the moment that I'm answering but other things that have been said have sparked off my train of thought or brought up an answer or a question.Other times, I'll need to do a bit of research so an answer won't be forthcoming straight away.Other times, just in general thought, I might have a sudden insight on something someone has said because I've been thinking about it; but that might be days later.I hope that's what you mean. I do feel in those cases- had they gone along those nights I would still put them away- but I could get the understanding after all these years of why people would feel bad for them.By the way ever see what Ruth ended up looking like as an adult? If Manson was the God to these people and everyone else was disposable. Clinton in London during 'Nam was a CIA plant who spied on the Anti-war protesters. In an effort to reconcile their marriage, Bob talked Linda into coming out to California. Funny how his client shortly after turned out to be the best evidence against him. She was expecting their second child when Robert left her behind once again to go on a South American sailing trip. The couple had a daughter named Tanya who was born in 1968. Besides, counsellor, J. Edgar Hoover head your the FBI agrees with me. With the events leading up to the TLB murders, one is very naive to think the trip to Venice was just for no real reason. Bugliosi did say that he had planned to question Susan later so who knows, it may have come up. Some people are just wired differently and motivated by different things. But they also shine a light on the crimes themselves. Note all the white faces. I meant that they claim to know the "Real motive" My apologies George. 2 facts will always remain, namely that Tonya was safe and returned safely and that Linda set out out to retrieve her and did so.even in the worst of circumstances- people can make their own fate / But not Linda. A month before he was even on the case, the police had Charles Manson down as a suspect and things were unravelling.Not only that, they all happened to be dramatic and under the surfaces lurks alternative and more reasonable possibilitiesAll happened to be dramatic ? Do I give weight to what anyone says after they were convicted: Not much. document.write(''); The problem of course is that Bugliosi does not want that answer. It was at night and I had no knowledge of what was happening until we actually got there." Right off the bat, any person with the capacity for critical thinking should question that. not long after the events in question. It probably seems quite insensitive to say this, but lots of people have lost loved ones to murderous violence and in addition, Rosemary LaBianca's daughter Suzan at one point demonstrated that not only was it possible to get over it, but that forgiveness and it's aftermath were realistic propositions. You can barely hear the dialogue and the transcript is full of "(Unintelligible)" and there are things she actually says that are not written in the transcript. Susan's deal was that nothing she said could be used against any of her co~defendants and there was no evidence that Linda had been along on either night.Atkins claimed that the prosecution steered her into recanting but it was she who kept insisting on seeing Charlie, after which, she recanted.One wonders how he would have spun Sadie if he needed her instead of turning this obvious piece of trash into a little angel? [This is very good lawyering. How did Linda's teachers report on her behavior? I thought Lake Victoria was the source of denial, but it appears to be somewhere in New Hampshire.Mother Kasabian is one of those people who live in a vacuum, in some freaky parallel universe.Linda didn't make a binary change to 16 year old, dropout, and rogue's bride as characterized. Credible doesn't always equal reliable and vice versa. Thing is though, it can be hard to spot or be conclusive at the time because it feels kind of heavy to assume a child or teenager is on the road to ruin due to things they might have done or be doing that haven't yet bloomed into something that everyone holds their heads in their hands about.That job as an aide at a nursing home sounds so kind and sweet..Perhaps I'm cynical, and she found joy sponge bathing a freshly soiled seniorI don't think you were being any more cynical than anyone else gets when discussing Mrs K and I don't think she was a nursing home aide out of some strong desire to replicate Florence Nightingale. AKA: Linda Christian, Yana the Witch, Linda Chiochios. Is Linda a good or bad person? Saint- I commend you for your deletions. Let me simplify it: Up until the Nadar story that Bugliosi and Linda toldThere was evidence that Linda wasn't capable of murder like the others. A second marriage to an Armenian-American hippie named Robert Kasabian, who she met in Boston, followed in 1967. Did both sides not do that quite a lot though ? Its Ok to see things differently Grim.You make alot of eloquent points bud. As for the night of LaBianca, it's so shrouded in mystery and there are so many questions that I am not exactly sure what his role was. The involvement of Susan and Gypsy in the Shorty affair has come to light too. Robert Hendrickson saidDreath has a good point - a "good" DA could have gotten THEM all with a "robbery" charge. She participated in terrible crimes, and then left her child with the people who she knew committed them.Then she flipped on those people too.Who could trust Linda? We may be more sophisticated now {or maybe just more easily sucked in by salacious red herrings} but the jury often gets a bad press, being portrayed as ignorant ding~a~lings that were easily swayed by Nixon {never mind that some of them had no time for Nixon} whereas if you ask me, they were pretty conscientious for the most part.On top of that, Linda bared all, which made it difficult for any historical shit to stick. Linda Kasabian After two failed marriages and the birth of her daughter Tanya, Kasabian joined Manson's commune at Spahn Ranch in July 1969. This might have been tried as a felony murder case like Van Houten III. After talking to a social worker, Linda returned to Los Angeles and eventually got her daughter back. ?Here, here! A couple of days later, she escaped and later returned to her mothers home in New Hampshire along with her daughter. HS crawled in 4th out of 6.Personally, I suspect that the ease and commonality with which Helter skelter is dismissed reflects a discomfort with the notion of God communicating, religion and the spiritual realm being taken seriously. That the motive for these seven horrendous murders was not money, it was not burglary or robbery. At the age of 16, Drouin dropped out of high school and got married, and soon after, divorced. Dec. 3, 1969, Concord, N.H. - Linda Kasabian, right, covers her face as Los Angeles Police woman Joan Simpson escorts her from Court House to start the trip back to California. "I was a half-assed nothing". That was given, was a givenI committed to what Tex said."Which, I guess, tells one anything, something or nothing. That's the point lol. Apparently, NONE was left over for witness research OR a private investigator.On 60 minutes last night they highlighted the story of a Black man who WRONGLY spent 30 years in prison, because HIS lawyer NEVER asked to have the supposed GUN (found in his mother's home) TESTED to see if the GUN bullets MATCHED the ones used on the VICTIM.OOPS, apparently back in the day, BLACK lives and Hippies didn't matter.When Clem had to appear in Court for a "rented" van left in a Death Valley ditch, Irving took HIM to a Salvation Army store for a proper fitting. She chose to be the way she was and then she eventually became the same kind of parent that Diane and Ruth had.So Sad. The big question: How do WE know she wouldn't kill? This was a great post and very interesting. And some members of the killer's families such as Leslie's dad or one of Tex's siblings might have lived for years haunted by what someone they loved was capable of doing.My original point in the above post was just to say that old cliche of being impossible to judge a person or situation unless you walk a mile in their shoes. He wasn't even charged with shooting Lotsapoppa, but we all know it happened..The question: what if she was ASKED?She wasn't asked, she was told. I gotta say I lean to the Saint here. Over here in England, working as a care assistant in a home for the elderly is not really seen as particularly caring work much of the time, it's often seen as a job anyone can do that wants to earn definite {low} money and the overwhelming majority of care workers I've known have not been native to these shores. In fact only Tex knew. Uh oh, not being a 'motive guy' I best stay out of this. Period. Susan started off saying it, but in a roundabout way {the crime to shock the world and now HS could begin} but from the penalty phase onwards has denied it. Some I'm not done pondering, some need more research and I am trying to find an expert or two. Her father was a construction worker and her mother a stay-at-home parent. It's no wonder her Mum was in despair.Linda showed amazing strength and guts to testify in the trials that she did but I don't think it's unfair to suggest that when it came to actual life and real living, she was one of the worst adverts for the counterculture and to some extent, gives the establishment their own justification for trying to pick apart the movement of those heady times. If you are saying he is wrongly in jail..As soon as Manson enters the LaBianca house, ties them up, tells them not to worry it is only a robbery he is done as soon as someone is murdered, especially IF he then told the rest to kill them but even if he didn'tThat, my friend, is felony murder and, no, it doesn't matter you, personally, didn't 'intend' to kill anyone. There is some fiddling and fuddling around the issue, all three men clarify that it was to be so but none of them ever push Susan or Leslie on it because the 2nd death squad didn't actually do anything. So if Kasabian stumbles on what he wants and says they arrived at the Polanski residence "4-5 hours after dark". All the excuses people make for themI personally know- as we all do I am sure- quite a few people whose parents were divorced when they were very young. Because there was no doubt that I knew that what was ever going to happen here was not going to be good. are with us in spirit if not in direct alliance. I still see no proof that any of the actual killers had any other reason- outside of runmor and innuendo.But thy have all said H/S was the driving force behind what they were trying to accomplish. Dreath, pleased to make your acquaintance. Man, that got ugly in a hurry. Robert,Thank you for the clarification. On December 2, 1969, Linda was indicted for the Tate-Labianca murders. Ruth's Mum wasn't in agreement with Dean and his changes. Could Watson Have Conspired With Suzan LaBerge??? Her testimony eventually led to their conviction. I think if you agree with me that her story is not accurate your answer to this question will reveal the real Kasabian. He knew the revolutionary struggle had to abandon the failed policies of men like Martin Luther King, the 'old' left and even the 'new' left. Reportedly given up for adoption (Although she kept her other children from her husband). MY double talk is meant to show there are, at least, two sides to every person's STORY (especially Linda's) AND I don't hate ANYONE, except maybe MYSELF.

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